Frequent
Fry Her TM - Doing It Together
/Posted: 12-FEB-02
Our counselor has finally let us know that it is
clear that my DM is clinically narcissistic. I had suspected
as much when I started doing some research a year ago, but maybe
I backed off this line of thought, as it seemed maybe then too irretrievable,
and I was looking for a "solution". I just wondered
if any of you have done research or received counseling in how to
deal with a narcissistic personality in your family. The essence
seems to be that it is virtually untreatable, and one may as well
accept it. If this is so, maybe you have some advice on how
behavior/boundaries/family relationships should be managed in these
circumstances. The irony is that, immediately after the counseling
session, we got a piece of mail in which my DM said that she recognizes
that my first mail to her was getting "my cards on the table",
and that her reaction to it was inappropriate. And, now she
wants to "start again". I do NOT want to go through
it all again, nor does my family. And, I have told her so
by mail today. How do you think a narcissist will react to
that one?!
Signed - How Do You Think
A Narcissist Will React?
RESPONSE: How Do You Think A Narcissist Will React?
How can your counselor diagnose someone she's never met? It
seems to me that both you and your wife have given your mother far
too much power in your lives. Your focus is still on HER and
HER behavior, instead of on your own. It seems that your mother
is trying to build a relationship with you both, and that she loves
you and wants to work things out. By sending her mail and
dredging up a decade or more of her past sins, you really couldn't
have accomplished anything other than to hurt her and put her on
the defensive. I'm not suggesting your mother is blameless.
I read the stuff about her displaying pictures of your ex-girlfriend
in her home, and that seemed at best an insensitive thing to do.
And, at worst, it was purposely mean. But, deal with the present,
instead of the past. The biggest thing that comes across to
me when I read both your and your wife's posts are that the two
of you are so busy vilifying your mother - you are not really focusing
on the problems between the two of you. You are right that
you will never change your mother's behavior. So, stop trying,
and focus on changing your own and your reactions to her.
If she does something that bothers you, (like the photos of your
ex), tell her you don't like it, and ask her not to do it.
If she agrees, great! If not, tell her that you respect that
it is her house, but that you won't visit her there anymore, since
she has chosen to display the photos. Stop giving her more
power than she really has. And, it seems that you, "F",
for a long time, didn't want to get in the middle of the problems
between your mom and wife. When you were forced to decide,
you didn't want to lose your wife. So, now, you seem to want
to make your mother the source of all your problems, while patting
yourself on the back for choosing your wife. Both you and
your wife need to let go of long held grudges, and focus on what
you can do to make things better. I wish you the best of luck.
I just hope you proceed in a more positive way, and accept the responsibility
for your own behavior and problems, rather than blaming someone
else.
RESPONSE: How Do You Think A Narcissist
Will React?
Narcissism is closely linked to psychopathy / sociopathy.
If you research the internet, you will find plenty of info on this
deviant personality type. And, hopefully, will take steps
to rid yourself of this person. They don't change. There
is no cure. Check it out.
I am not the favorite
DIL. My husband's ex wife is. They were married for
7 years, and had 2 kids. I could understand it when my stepchildren
(who I adore) were young. I thought, "OK, MIL is afraid
the ex will stop her from seeing the kids." She didn't
even invite me for Christmas until we had been for married 5 years.
Although, after the first year, she did invite DH. I mean,
she could have asked us to bring the kids. We were only driving
12 hours every other weekend to see them. I thought, "OK,
she can't be inherently evil. She just isn't handling things
well right now. It will change with time." Boy,
was I an idiot!!!!!! I have now been married to DH for 18
years. The kids are in their 20's, and both have cars.
Last spring, I got word that the ex "brought stepdaughter to
visit, and we all went out to eat for BIL's birthday with the whole
family." My stepdaughter told me. Usually, I just
ignore this stuff, and save the stomach acid, but this really fried
me. It's been 18 years, and the ex goes to family parties
that we aren't invited to. So, I sent a subtle little email
to SIL (who didn't speak to me for the first 7 years we were married,
making family gatherings very interesting) and mentioned that SD
had told me what a wonderful time they had ALL had. Return
email mentioned only SD. There was no, "I'm sorry."
No, "Oh, we should have invited you." They were
trying to act like the ex wasn't there. That was the last
email I sent SIL, although she keeps sending stuff every now and
then. I make DH answer. At any rate, a month later I
was in my kitchen, shredding cabbage for homemade sauerkraut.
Garden dirt and cabbage leaves all over the kitchen. Since
I work 5 or 6 days a week outside the home, I was also spot cleaning
the carpet at the same time. The sweat was pouring, I looked
ratty, and I was drinking a beer. The door opened, and DH
called up the stairs, "Guess what, honey, my folks are here."
I was floored. They live 2 blessed hours away, and they couldn't
call????????? I couldn't think of anything to say. My
jaw dropped. The silence just kept stretching out, until finally
I croaked, "What a surprise!" This was MIL's idea
of a repair gesture. Oh, yeah, and she didn't ask us out to
lunch, either. They had already eaten. They just decided
to "drop in". Well, that's the only way they are
ever going to be at my house. Let their favorite DIL invite
them.
Signed - Not The Favorite
RESPONSE: Not The Favorite
I am sorry for your in-law trouble. I know how hurtful they
can be. May I ask you. 1. Were you a factor in
your husband's first marriage's end? 2. Are your in-laws
religious? If the answer is yes to both, they may never treat
you like the first daughter-in-law, no matter how long you're married.
Frequent
Fry Her TM - Devil Made
Me Do It 3 of 4 Needed /Posted: 12-FEB-02
Nothing has happened, lately anyway, to make me lose
my head at the MIL, but I thought I'd share my son's 2nd birthday
party experience. Well, at least the aftermath! My son
turned 2 in the first week of December, and we decided to have the
party the Saturday after his big day, when the stepchildren were
home and all. So, my MIL showed up with SIL in tow.
I retreated to the rear of the house to change my DS's wet pants.
That's when I heard my MIL shout, "My back really hurts.
Do you have some drugs?", (with extra whine for my family's
benefit!). Like the good DIL that I am, I told her where to
find the medicine, and heard my SIL say, "You don't need that
sh!t!", (RED FLAG I MISSED). My SIL thinks you should
only take things that are labeled with a name brand, and the stuff
I had was the store brand version. SO, anyway, 3 hours, 15
gifts, cake and ice cream later, my MIL left, and took HER 2 grand
kids with her (yet another story). My girlfriend, my mother,
and I were sitting around discussing what a fruit my MIL is, and
I got into the cabinet where I keep the meds for my own headache.
And, sitting in the front of the cabinet was a bottle on prescription
codeine that my son had recently been prescribed for ENT surgery.
He had only taken one dose after his release, but surprisingly,
HALF of the bottle was empty! When I said something, my friend
told me that she had watched MIL open the bottle and drink from
it (she thought no one was watching!). Then, she measured
out some to make it look good. She had nothing to eat for
the 3 hours she was here, and had taken the meds in the first 10
minutes! Now, remember, when she left, she took a 4 and 5
year old with her!!!! And, YES, she drove! I WAS PISSED!
I figured out that she took about 11 adult doses in one swig of
the bottle - enough to kill her if she didn't already have such
a tolerance for it. The weird thing, is that my SIL saw it
and commented on it, but always turns the other way! I told
my DH, after everyone left, and then I told him to take care of
it. If he wanted to endanger his children in that manner,
I was not going to have any part of it. He called her, and
she tried to lay on the guilt about her heart this, and her back
that. He told her to stuff it - he wasn't buying it!
So, I was proud of him for that, but it didn't last long.
He's back to suckling again! AND, since I am the one who told
him what happened, she now tells anyone who will listen that I am
trying to convince everyone that she is a codeine addict!
Well, if she'd ask me my opinion, I'd tell her, "YOU ARE!"
Want to know the best thing??? She's a nurse. She has
been fired from her job of 15 years for god knows what, and is under
review by the state board of nursing! Maybe I'll get to sit
in the back of the courtroom someday and quietly laugh my @ss off!
Frequent
Fry Her TM.
- The Fish 4 of 4 /Posted: 12-FEB-02
MIL makes fun of DH's and my education. MIL
is very blue collar. There is nothing wrong with that, either.
But, it's necessary to say to see why this pisses me off.
I grew up in a white collar house, so my normal is VERY different
than MIL's normal. DH's brother and sister are blue collar,
as are MIL and FIL. DH, from all accounts, was always considered
"different" by his family. He's one of those kids
that you can not figure out how they turned out the way they did,
based on their parents/family. DH is the first (and so far
only) person in his family to get a college education. He's
now a VP at a bank - so very NOT blue collar. But, MIL isn't
in the least proud of her college graduate son. She harangues
him all the time, "What we have wasn't good enough for you,
was it?" She brags on her other son, who holds a menial
job at the local water plant - he's had THE SAME JOB for 23 years!
I guess in her world, that means he's a success. In my world,
it tells me BIL is lazy. And he IS lazy (he's lived with mommy
and daddy for 41 of his 43 years, if THAT tells you anything).
SIL is a secretary at a big local company. To hear MIL talk,
SIL owns the place. But, her son, the legitimate VP of a bank,
is the black sheep, the loser. My education is also held in
contempt. I have 2 master's degrees. It's just a fact.
I do NOT brag about it or tell people about it unless asked (and,
even then, I only mention 1 of them). But, MIL (the ONE time
she spoke to me) told me that I was a snob, and thought I was better
than everyone else because I was educated. And, SHE wasn't
going to "kneel down" and worship me just because I have
more education than SHE does. I could go on, but you get the
picture. I happen to LIKE school (having 2 teachers as parents
will do that to a person). Both of my parents had 2 masters,
so I wanted to at least equal them. Plus, at least 1 master's
is necessary in my field. I didn't get these degrees for snob
value, I got them in increase my earning power! How DARE this
uneducated (high school dropout) woman make fun of MY hard-earned
education? What the he!! is up with that? I worked my
ass off for those degrees, and am proud that I was able to do so.
But, I certainly don't hold my diplomas in her face and demand that
she respect me for it! DH is proud of me. My dad is
proud of me. And, my family is proud of me - even FIL is proud
of me (he slipped me $200 on the sly the day I graduated with my
first one, and told me not to tell MIL!!). So, why does SHE
make a big deal out of it? I certainly don't.
RESPONSE: Why Does SHE Make A Big Deal Out Of It?
First of all, I am all for education, and I am going to encourage
my children to further their education as well. I attended
college (I have no degree), and I plan to return one day to finish.
My DH is a high school dropout, and he makes more money than I and
some others I know with degrees. He does regret his decision
of quitting school when he was young. His decision was stupid
- he is not. I understand your point that your MIL is a pain
in the butt. And, she is jealous of you, too. But, you
sound awfully snobby. So what if BIL has been at the same
job for 23 years. I can think of worse things. Yeah,
the thing about him living with his parents is pretty bad, but,
the fact that he has kept the same job so long does NOT make him
lazy. And, there is NOTHING wrong with SIL being a secretary.
AND, I will tell you that, in some places, the secretaries DO practically
own the place! I am sorry that the MIL is rude to you, and
she needs to be told off in the worst way, but, be careful cutting
down people who are not "white collar". And, I know
both white and blue collar type people who work just as hard as
the other.
RESPONSE: Why Does SHE Make A Big Deal Out Of It?
Your situation sounds a lot like mine. My MIL dropped out
of high school (married in her senior year), and had two kids before
she turned 20. The last three generations of women in her
family married before their 18th birthdays, and she resents those
of us who got educated and delayed marriage until after college.
She, also, resents couples who wait a few years before having kids,
etc., etc. In other words, she resents anyone who has a PLAN
for life. She constantly praises members of the family who
are big losers, and never compliments those of us who have worked
very hard to be responsible, productive people. It is called
JEALOUSY, and it is almost always unprovoked. Your MIL sounds
much like mine. The only thing I can do is try and build her
self-esteem (most jealousy is born of low self-esteem) by complimenting
her cooking, etc. Hope things get better, and hope you get
some responses that help.
RESPONSE: Why Does SHE Make A Big Deal Out Of It?
Your MIL makes a big deal out of your and DH's education because
she's jealous (does her skin have a green tint to it?), and she
is angry that she doesn't have what you and DH have. I should
know, because I deal with the same situation you deal with.
I grew up in a white collar family that valued education.
DH grew up in a blue collar family that didn't. DH told me
that, when he decided to attend college, his mom told him that it
would be "a waste of time and money". Thank God
he didn't listen to her, and graduated with a Bachelor's Degree.
MIL didn't even attend his graduation! I was dating DH when
I graduated. First, she tried to stop him from attending it.
Then, she refused to even acknowledge it. My FIL, on the other
hand, bought me a card, and told me congratulations. Then,
I came into DH's life. MIL hated me before she even met me,
because she found out my parents were well off, and have high positions.
They do NOT throw money around in people's faces. It didn't
matter. I was labeled a "rich b!tch", and my parents
are "stuck up snobs." She brags about my SIL's job
($6.00 an hour), but, she tells people that DH and I have stupid
jobs nobody cares about. MIL's younger sister, who is normal,
told me that MIL told her that it's not fair that God gave my family,
DH, and I good jobs and money, and turned his back at her, my FIL,
and SIL. She honestly thinks people achieve success only if
God decides to give it to them. My advice to you is to just
take in pleasure knowing that she is truly jealous of you.
Every time she says something about our jobs or money, I just think
that and laugh inside!
RESPONSE: Why Does SHE Make A Big Deal Out Of It?
Maybe she feels threatened by it. She doesn't realize that
you don't feel it makes you superior to others without degrees.
I have a Master's degree too, and I definitely don't think it makes
me superior. In fact, I feel inferior to just about everyone!
It astonishes me when other people are thrown by it. I hardly
ever talk about it. If you just keep showing that you respect
other people and admire them for how they are, maybe they can get
over it. I see very little reason to even mention my degree.
To be honest, it's been a hard thing to live up to.
RESPONSE: Why Does SHE Make A Big Deal Out Of It?
She's resentful and jealous. You could be the Queen of England
and she would not be happy. In fact, she would hate it!!
There's a deep resentment coming through. And, anyone who
feels that someone "staying in the same job for 23 years"
is a success is sad. By the way, I learned the hard way that
my ex MIL was JEALOUS of my master's degree! I never imagined
she'd be, because she had a bachelor's, and a nice job!! But,
one day, I overheard her talking to someone on the phone and she
said, "If it weren't for my son, she'd never have gotten that
master's!!" Yeah, right. I had to work three jobs,
and it took four years. Good luck.
RESPONSE: Why Does SHE Make A Big Deal Out Of It?
Can I please contact you? It sounds like we have VERY similar
situations. They won't let me post an e-mail on these pages,
but we can meet on the message boards. Later!
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