March 11, 2003


PLEASE NOTE:  This month, we are introducing 2 alternatives when responding to a story.  In addition to the traditional opportunity to receive feedback, the submitter of the story can choose to simply vent (no feedback), or can choose a simple set of checkbox responses.

	Worst gift:  For Christmas this year my mother-in-law sent me a gaudy pin.  It looks like a big bush with red spots all over it.  I am 31, not 91.  What is wrong with her?         Signed - I Am 31, Not 91         ( I can top this ) 0       1 0                                                   Strongly Agree                                                              Somewhat Agree                                                              Somewhat Disagree                                                              Strongly Disagree                                                              Please Seek Counseling                                                              Continue on Message Board
	My MIL lets it be known that she doesn't get invited to our place nearly often enough.  She even makes pointed remarks to our dog, in front of me, "I don't see you NEARLY often enough."  They live close by.  I've been just remembering some of the things that they've done when they have been here, and they've been real @sshats.  I've posted a lot about it on this site.  Could they really think that they can act like that, and have us WANT to invite them here?  I really have grown to HATE my MIL (not so much my FIL), although I will always keep trying to be quiet and polite.  I hate everything she stands for, and totally disagree with her.  She has stepped all over my toes over the years - she's tiresome, disloyal, unsupportive, and essentially unkind.  The things that she says about others are unkind - it seems as if the only person she likes is herself.  Well, that makes ONE person who likes her.  I truly can't stand her.  I think of the MIL who posted to this board whining that her DIL never invited her over and "never fixed (her) a snack".  Do MILs really think we OWE them those things, without their having to be the least bit kind and friendly and decent?  My MIL has done her share of whining, too, about not getting what she wants from me, but that gets her NOWHERE.  I'm sorry that I couldn't change my attitude towards her - it was one of my new year's resolutions not to be so negative about her (and, in fact, not to check this web site anymore, which I've done every day for years, just about!).  But, it seems that this really is a necessary outlet for my feelings.  They're still there, even if I try to deny them.  I wish I felt more at peace about her, but I really hold a grudge about the things that she's said and done.  I totally mistrust her.  When I TRIED to reach out to her, to invite her and my FIL over, etc., they acted like such jerks that it really turned me off to even TRYING to reach out to them and be kind to them.  I give up.         Signed - Defensive DIL         ( here is my story )         Per the poster's request, no responses collected.
	It occurred to me to ask you - my "group therapy" - for advice about this.  Do any of you have problems with an in-law who doesn't spend the amount of time with you and/or your children that you'd like?  If so, could you tell me how you think that situation could be helped, or how a compromise could be reached?  I'd love to hear "the other side".  Both my MIL and SIL seem to really resent me for not spending more time with them.  I'm a shy person, and my point of view (in case this is helpful) is that I have a knee-jerk reaction to that resentment that instinctively leads me to want to spend even LESS time with them.  So, over the years we've gone from spending not all that much time together to spending practically NO time together.  And I feel defensive, and they feel resentful.  Or, at least, they seem that way to me.  From my point of view, our time spent together is hurtful and offensive, and filled with lots of passive-aggressive, hurtful remarks.  But, I think that's just their anger spilling over.  It's not that they're the jerks and I'm the saint - I feel angry, too.  And clearly the way I've been has not brought out the best in them.  My instinct is to just completely avoid them as much as possible.  But, you know, with family, that's hard.  Do any of you have different perspectives?  We are all reasonably polite people.  We keep trying, in our way, not to let the situation get worse.  We try to give each other thoughtful gifts (sometimes we succeed at this better than other times, but all of us do well at it sometimes).  I'm afraid that if I gave them what they thought they wanted, and spent more time with them, our relationship would get even worse.  So, in a way, by keeping my distance, I'm trying not to burn out.  Both of them gossip a lot about people they know well (in a very unflattering way), so maybe it's in great part because I don't trust either one of them very deeply.  But, they have feelings, too, and are both decent people in their way.  They're not over-the-top jerks and psychopaths.  I'd love to hear from any of you on either side of this kind of thing as to what your point of view is.  And, any way you know of to improve the situation.  Or maybe situations like this can't necessarily be healed and improved, just tolerated?  It's a big issue in my life.  Thanks for "listening".         Signed - Shy SIL/DIL RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL I feel your pain, and I'm sorry to say that you need more help than we can provide.  Speak to a professional. RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL No advice here, I do the same thing.  My MIL isn't someone who I particularly want to be "friends" with and so we only see each other when family obligations demand it.  Good luck. RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL By both sides not sitting down and discussing the situation, your feelings, and those of your MIL and SIL, will continue.  You have several choices:  1.  Reach out to them.  Sit down and talk to them.  Explain how you feel, and tell them why you feel this way.  2.  Let the situation continue as is, and continue to feel the same.  3.  Let your DH handle it - they're his parents.  Personally, I'd choose No 1.  If you get no response, then at least you know you've tried.  How does your DH feel about this situation?  Good luck. RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL I think that there's nothing to be gained by forcing things more than you absolutely HAVE to or feel inspired to.  Although there isn't anything to be said for rudeness, there's a lot to be said for sincerity (you don't have to express negative feelings, but don't feign excessively affectionate ones and don't spend more time with them than you have to).  If you are as kind to them as you can be, you'll be doing ok.  But, don't try to act like their best friend when you know that you're not.  Maybe they won't be happy with how much they see you, but, think about it - are they happy about people who DO spend more time with them?  My sense is that they probably have many complaints about everyone.  When you feel moved to reach out to them, or when you absolutely have no choice, follow those impulses and reach out to them then.  It's not like you give them NOTHING; it's just that they want more (or different).  You wouldn't please them no matter what you did, I suspect - certainly not by twisting yourself into a pretzel to painfully try to please them.  And, if they sensed that you were doing that, they'd lose even more respect for you.  Just be who you are and keep trying to be decent to them in your own way.  Then, when you DO reach out to them, they'll have the feeling that it's sincere, and deep down they'll appreciate it more.  But, like I said, think about how they feel about other people besides you.  Are they pleased with the more outgoing people who are willing to spend more time with them?  I doubt they're pleased with those people, either.  It's not just you. RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL If you can maintain the relationship the way it is now, without making it worse in any way, you'll be doing OK  We have no control about how other people feel about us; all we can do is our best.  The stronger and less off-balance you feel about this, the more you will have to offer these relationships.  Some people are really invested in being demanding and unsatisfied.  Even if you do everything that they tell you they want, they still would have some complaints.  Go ahead and live your life, and keep wishing them well.  I think that you can live with the relationship the way it is.  You can accept them as people who will always want different things from you than what you'll be able to give.  You can accept them as people who will always wish you were different.  And you can keep giving each other thoughtful gifts and doing your best.  There's nothing like in-law relationships to remind us that we'll never be living in a perfect world. RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL Why do you want to spend time with these people?  It seems as if you are having mixed emotions about being true to YOUR feelings (not spending time with gossipers and people who make many passive aggressive comments) and spending time with these people because they are somehow manipulating you into feeling guilty about not spending time with them.  I truly wish that I had a wonderful MIL who was sweet, not a gossip, and not a passive aggressive, mean spirited person, too.  But I don't.  And I don't spend time with her AT ALL.  And I keep her away from my children because she is toxic.  You have to figure out what is going to make you happiest.  If you are happy NOT spending time with these people because you genuinely don't like them, then don't.  IF you want to TRY to have a better relationship with them, and you can tolerate the gossiping and the rude comments, then do that.  You can't change these people.  You can only change your reaction to them.  They are probably not going to change their ways, so base your decision of how often you will be around them and/or do things with them on what will bring you and your marriage the most joy.  If you become like them when you are around them, you should consider that factor as well.  Lots of luck.  Do what makes YOU (not them) happiest and what makes your marriage to DH happiest.  You don't have to love your in-laws, just your husband.  And you CAN respect your husband by spending less time with his family if they are toxic people.  You have to make the ultimate choice as to what is best for YOU, your husband, and your children (if you have any). RESPONSE:  Shy SIL/DIL Why do you feel guilty about not spending lots and lots of time with people whom you don't like, trust, or enjoy spending time with?  You are an adult and can spend your time as you like.  Your MIL and SIL are also adults, and you are not responsible for their feelings or moods.  The fact that they are angry or resentful because you don't have some buddy-buddy relationship with them tells me that they are immature and controlling.  You are better off to limit the time that you spend with people like that.  They are probably incapable of establishing a respectful, adult relationship with you.  I think that your instincts are right, that if you did spend more time with them, your relationship would get worse.  They would try to suck you down to their level, try to pry information out of you to use against you (gossips always do), and generally USE you for their own amusement.  Don't let them.  Good luck to you.  I give you credit for trying to make the best of a pretty difficult situation.
	I am new to this site.  I have been reading it over the past few months.  This is my first time writing.  My MIL is the most manipulative, lying, and two faced person I know.  I have never been anything but nice to her.  I am 26 and have been married for 18 months.  DH and I got married because I was pregnant.  We had been dating for 2 years, and had discussed marriage on several occasions.  When we told his parents that we were going to get married, his mom had a disgruntled look on her face and said, "I figured that would happen."  My FIL, on the other hand, came over to me, hugged me, and said, "Welcome to the family."  We didn't tell them about the baby, however.  We planned the wedding in 6 weeks.  Throughout the whole planning process, SHE had to be in control over what was said or done.  Then, she tried to act like she was not taking control when DH confronted her about it.  The real problem began when, 10 days before the wedding, I miscarried.  That is when both sides of the family found out about it.  I was 8 weeks along.  My MIL came to my hospital bed, and the first words she said to me were, "What are you all trying to do, send me to my grave?"  Like it was just so disgraceful for her.  My DH sees no problem with what she said because to him all she said was that a life had been lost, and she was upset.  DH's brother got married a month before we did.  The day of our wedding, we were told by MIL that BIL and SIL were pregnant.  Which, by the way, ruined my honeymoon.  I was terribly upset over the whole thing.  The day we got back from the honeymoon, she couldn't wait to show me the card that BIL and SIL gave her to announce the "big news".  She is very insensitive about the whole thing.  The problem I have nowadays is that she is forever wanting us to come over to her house.  It doesn't help matters that DH cannot cut the cord from his "mama".  She called us last Wednesday night and said that she had cooked supper for us, but that she forgot that we had church that night.  I am sick and tired of ALWAYS going to her house to eat.  I might as well not have any groceries at my house.  She lives 1 mile from us, by the way.  I wish I could just go one week without seeing them.  I told DH that he is so far up there butts that he'll end up coming out of their noses.  He has a HUGE family, and thinks that he has to be over at his mom's house any time someone comes by for a visit.  Whenever we meet them somewhere else, other than her house, when we leave, she says, "Are you coming to the house?"  Why do we have to follow them home?  We argue all the time about having to spend every waking moment with them.  When we go somewhere (just the two of us), first thing DH does is pick up the phone and call mommy when we come home.  Uggh!!  Will this ever end?  It seems like he has never left his home.  Another thing that MIL does is talk about everyone.  She is the one who spreads all the family gossip.  I can't stand that.  She tries to make is sound like more than it really is.  She exaggerates the truth all the time.  For example, when she changed nephew's diaper, instead of it being a "dirty diaper", it is "rivers of sh!t".  When we all rented a beach condo for the weekend, she made it known to other family members (who were not with us, by the way) that we didn't invite them on purpose because they never invite us to the condo that they OWN.  I have seen her openly defy my SIL when she says not to give her son table food (when he was 4 months old).  She did it on purpose, saying that it wouldn't hurt him.  And, then she wondered why he had an upset stomach afterward.  I will not trust her with my children (when I have them).  I could go on and on, but I'll stop here for now.         Signed - UncouthMIL RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Run!!! RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Move!  Now!  Far, far away! RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Your MIL is not the problem.  Your DH is the problem.  Don't have any kids until your husband grows up. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Since you don't have children, I would reevaluate your marriage.  DH and "mama" spell trouble for you down the road. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Make one last attempt to sever that cord.  Then, run like the wind.  You need to move a long way away from her, whether it is with your DH or without him. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL You need to put a stop to this, and you cannot do it alone.  Get professional help.  In the meantime, try to do things away from the house, alone.  Or, invite friends over to your house so that your DH has less time to spend with his mommy. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Get counseling with DH, and MOVE far away, enough that the drop in visits are not possible.  My MIL is the same way.  But, thankfully, DH is not as easily led by her.  He's the one who doesn't want to move closer (and now that I know her better, neither do I).  And, being an hour away makes it much harder to be smothered.  Good luck. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Your story truly stinks, and you have my sympathy.  That said, don't even think about bringing children into this situation.  You've got serious marriage problems.  Your primary concern needs to be that baby you married, not his mother.  Please get to counseling ASAP. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL I'm so sorry for your loss, a miscarriage is never easy.  I hate to say it, but it sounds like your DH isn't ready to be married and have children.  Perhaps you might try counseling and see if he can quickly grow into his new "position".  If that doesn't work, see a lawyer. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL And, why do you stay married to your DH?  He is the real problem here.  He needs to cut the cord and put you first.  MIL acts that way because you and DH let her.  Grow a spine and stand up to this nutcase! RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL And, in the two years that you were dating, you did not see this coming?  Your DH woke up the morning after the wedding and turned into a momma's boy?  The fact that you allowed your BIL and SIL's announcement of expecting a child to ruin your (isn't it your DH's also) honeymoon is wrong.  Yes, your MIL is insensitive, but it appears that you have a few areas to work on. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL I, too, have a DIL who is impossible.  She pretends to my face that she likes me.  But, if I don't watch out, she'll cut off my head.  Also, the FIL is a control freak.  So, he thinks that he always says smart things to me, and I end up getting hurt a lot by him.  They were divorced before I got into the picture.  FIL has remarried, MIL has not.  The stepmother acts as if someone is going to undermine her.  And, believe you me, we don't want anything from her.  She is also like the MIL - two faced.  I hate them all.  I'm just about ready to SCREAM, you know.  I wish you good luck.  You and me both! RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL You need to get DH to wake up and smell the stench of his overbearing, controlling mother.  You and he are now a family, and that has to come first - before mommy dearest, her dinners, her house, her visitors, etc.  In the marriage vows, "forsaking all others" doesn't just mean not to sneak around with the lonely housewife down the street.  It means ALL others (mother, father, sister, brother, great-aunt LuLuBelle - the whole clan).  If your husband isn't ready to do that for you, you'd better lay down the law and GET him ready for it.  Otherwise, you both are in for a rocky road, with no happiness in sight. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Your MIL sounds just like mine.  When you have children, her behavior will get worse, as she will attack you through them, too.  The good news is that your husband will start to change slowly.  He is still locked up in their prison, for now.  You will have to follow him around on this one until he realizes that you have feelings and that you exist.  He'll get it, eventually.  What is important is that you respect yourself for whatever it is you like to do with your time.  As hard as it is, you may have to do your own thing, sometimes, and leave your husband to carry out his acts of duty on his own.  I have been married for five years, and my DH knows that I won't follow him around anymore for numerous reasons.  The main one is that he socializes with people who are rude to me!  Adopt a no gossip, no talk about yourself attitude around the relatives.  Keep to the here and now around them.  Protect your own privacy (and yourself) first.  Kissing their you-know-what for your husband's sake is going to kill your love for him.  Decide what you will and won't tolerate, to be fair to them and yourself, and stick to it.  It's hard, but you have to try.  Remind your husband that your marriage will be heaps better if he sees it as a partnership between the two of you.  My husband really hates his own mother, and often acts to sabotage my efforts to become a competent mother myself.  He hates anything that I do that looks like her behavior.  For him, it's not sexy at all.  Consequently, he spent years of "our" marriage going home for food, clothes, purchases, etc.  Why make me do these things??  It's all very simple to a man.  Your MIL knows when she is hurting you, and knows how to get away with it without her son catching her drift at all.  I have found that telling my MIL how I, myself, feel is the stupidest thing of all.  She then knows what hurts me, and she does exactly what I have asked her not to do!  The MIL who took photos of childbirth without permission and refused to return the photos should be taken to court!  MILs have no respect for privacy. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL I understand what you are saying.  My husband is, by all means, not a mama's boy, thank God.  You dated DH for a while.  Didn't you know that he was this attached to his family?  I feel for you, but you have the power to change it by not going over all the time yourself.  You should try to get more of a life away from his parents by getting friends to hang out with.  You know, movies, dinner parties, and girl's night.  There is a big world out there of interesting people to meet, other than his parents and family.  You need to remind your DH of this.  I can't imagine being 26 and always hanging at my IL's house (not cool), and always eating there.  Young people need privacy, especially a young married couple.  I wouldn't take her comments too badly.  I don't think that she meant anything bad by it.  I've heard many people, including my mother, use that phrase, and I think that you are taking it wrong.  It's just an expression of being surprised and shocked.  She also has the right to be happy about SIL and BIL being pregnant.  I understand that you 're upset about the miscarriage, but, remember, nature and the lord above have their own reasons for things.  Your DH, on the other hand, does need to cut those strings and get a life.  If my husband called every time we got back in from a date, I would scream.  That's like telling them everything that you do.  You also have the choice to not meet them at their house, and go home, or to stay where you want.  Let your DH be the one who goes over all the time.  Don't be afraid to tell them that you are staying or not coming over.  It's really that simple.  I wouldn't want to hang out all the time at my ILs.  I don't even hang out that much at my own parent's house.  I don't feel obligated to do so, if that is not what I want to do.  I don't owe them my time just because they are DH's parents.  We have a life of our own, with friends and activities that don't include our family.  Sure, we talk to them and see them, but they don't make our dinner, and we don't leave with them if we do run into them.  You also don't have to live where they are, you know.  It is possible to move to a place you and DH have always wanted to.  It's your lives, enjoy it, and get away from the parents.  He's been living with them his whole life.  Isn't he ready to do his own thing now?  Sorry, but I love living life away from family.  It gives us freedom to be the people we want to be.  Stop going over there if it's not what you want.  He'll catch on.  Or, maybe you are with the wrong guy.  It's very important that you and DH have the same interests.  You're not being fair to yourself if you keep going over.  And, maybe you should look into your relationship before you have kids with this guy, because if you think that you spend a lot of time over their house now, just wait till you have kids.  They'll be on you like white on rice. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Welcome to the site.  I know what you mean by saying that you wish you could go 1 week without seeing them.  People will undoubtedly tell you that your husband needs to grow a spine, grow a pair, whatever.  But, it isn't the husband who writes, it's you.  How do you get a person (DH) to change?  I don't think you can, but you can change yourself.  My own DH has told me that I just don't understand because my family and I are not close.  It's true that we don't have our noses in each other's business, but I wouldn't say that we're not close.  My advice is to stick to your guns.  You can DECLINE invitations, too. RESPONSE:  UncouthMIL Oh, honey, you have my total sympathy!  I was practically pulling my hair out over your MIL.  First of all, I could kick her for what she said to you when you lost the baby.  That has been one thing that has consistently driven me crazy about my own MIL.  When there is some tragedy that has nothing to do with her, it has to be all about HER, and HER feelings.  So, I'm irritated at your MIL right off the bat.  And, you are going to HAVE to insist on marriage counseling for yourself and DH if he won't see the light about not being so overly involved with his family, and expecting you to do the same.  You are your own family now.  They're extended family.  I would lose my mind if my DH would let our in-laws (who also live close to us) run our lives like that.  If this makes you feel any better, it is possible to cut down on all that excessive visiting.  My MIL used to tell us what we needed to do socially (she'd even buy us tickets to events without asking if it suited us to go.  She just assumed).  Now, they no longer feel free to just stop by all the time or to demand that we tag along with them like little children.  But, DH and I had to have a lot of heart-to-heart talks about this!  My in-laws are resentful, but their behavior is essentially no worse than it's ever been, and they've stopped taking for granted that they can run our social lives and order us around.  At first, our relationship was a lot like you described, so this is just to give you hope!  The key is your DH - he needs to come around and think of himself as your husband, not their little boy.  I don't mean that you have to be mean to them (we really try to be as decent to my ILs as we can).  There are just some boundaries that are sorely in need of being set.  MIL HAS to stop taking the two of you for granted.  And, DH has to wake up and see that if he wanted to go on experiencing a protracted childhood, he had no business getting married.  He needs to wake up!

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